This morning the issue of gun control was being discussed on the DreX Morning Show.
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I guess a woman in Arizona (I think) suggested that all students be able, if not encouraged, to carry concealed guns on campus in lieu of recent events. Um…really? You really think that’s a good idea?
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I can see why she’d support that. Sure it would come in handy if someone started shooting up the place. But my argument is this: if everyone has a gun, wouldn’t shootings occur more often? I’m sorry, but twenty-somethings are unstable creatures. Whose to say that when so-and-so is having a bad day, he won’t reach into his backpack and shoot someone? Or what if a drunken group of students get into a fight? Whose stopping them from pulling out that gun. If you make the guns more accessible, the more likely they are to be used.
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Alternative gun control was brought up. Gun control is just taking them away. A caller wanted guns to be embraced and encouraged. This caller argued that before being allowed to carry a weapon, they should be required to take a gun safety course. Wow, one whole course about gun safety? Is that what it takes to stop people from shooting up schools and department stores? Why didn’t we think of this years ago? Oh right, we did. It doesn’t work.
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It’s a tricky issue, gun control. You want to give Americans the right to defend themselves, at the same time, there are too many people out there who need restrictions and if given the opportunity, will use it against us. I don’t think granting college students the right to carry guns in their backpacks is a good idea. 
There are so many things that could go wrong with that. School shootings will probably double in numbers. How many fist-fights break out at school? Replace fists with guns and there you go. While it would be great to have if, and I certainly hope not, another school shooting occurs, at the same time, school shootings aren’t happening every day. The frequency doesn’t warrant arming our students.
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I think more restrictions need to be placed on guns. How many kids, adolescents, teenagers commit suicide every year because they got a hold of their parent’s gun? How many accidental shootings occur? How many unstable people get access to guns? This generation is too immature and short-fused to handle weapons. If you’re confronted, many reactions would be to grab the gun, whether for intimidation purposes or worse, actual use.
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I honestly don’t see how this could be a good idea.
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And for the record, I don’t think every twenty-something is unstable. But a majority of school shootings are committed by that generation. I completely realize that thirty, forty and even sixty-somethings are capable of firing a gun. I’m not being a generationist. Is that even a word? It is now! I just don’t think it’s safe to place guns in the hands of people who think getting wasted and riding around in shopping carts spitting lighter fluid into a lighter is a good idea. I also know that no matter how hard we make it for people to get guns, they will find a way around it. Loop holes are a bitch.
{ 43 comments… read them below or add one }
I agree with you.
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Yeah, more guns would definitely lead to fewer shootings. Ugh.
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I’m sure that woman from Arizona was a liberal Democrat, right? (sarcasm)
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I’m all for people being able to own guns, but I don’t think they have any place on college campuses.
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I’m a VA Tech Hokie… and I have so many opinions on this topic I’m not even sure I’d be able to express them properly.
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Something definitely has to be done, though.
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Seriously.
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Right after the shootings at NIU Drex broached this topic then too. I really think that it is kind of ridiculous. I can understand why some people would want it, but I agree with what you said about how 20somethings can be unstable.
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Someone for some reason gets mad at someone else, both pull out guns. Someone actually does have a gun at school ready to start shooting so the rest of the classroom (30ish students) all pull out guns to take him out? That’s just asking for trouble.
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Or even not at school, say someone’s having a party and everyone gets wasted and someone is like OH HEY LOOK WHAT I GOT, pulls out gun and someone is accidentally shot.
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I don’t think this is the answer but I do agree with Deutlich, something must be done.
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allowing guns in schools is quite possibly the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard of.
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The people who want everyone to be armed actually think that everyone would WANT to be armed. That’s the biggest problem. There are a lot of people out there who don’t want guns in their lives, and we know that we’d all be safer if no one had them.
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I agree. And not to mention that if you were to give a gun to anyone, they could inflict danger on themselves. What if you’re giving a gun to a suicidal person?! I hate guns. If someone gave me one, I’d have a panic attack. I wonder if she wants to imbed microchips in people too.
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Hmmm. your post got me thinking (thanks!) and i’m back to add…I wonder if this person who wants to give guns to every college student conversely does NOT want to give them condoms. hmmmm
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agree that this is silly…
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guns scare the crap out of me.
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So are you actually suggesting that normal people who have no suicidal tendencies have their mind controlled by a piece of metal and plastic and it forces them to kill themselves?
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Unfortunately, real statistics do not bear out your “more guns = more deaths” meme. There are 270,000,000 firearms in the US under civilian control. 2004 data from the CDC shows 12,000 homicides (homicide includes self defense as well as murder). The police are special. When they kill people it’s called “legal intervention”. Unless you honestly believe people are only suicidal because they have a gun (again, the CDC numbers indicate half of the suicides in the US do not use a gun), then we’re talking a scant .000347% of all guns are used in homicides. You can fact check me here.
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More people die at the hands of doctors each year than they do from guns.
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Nobody suggests arming people against their will. I’m sure there’s a few idiots out there that might, but they’re not the mainstream. Instead, all we’re saying is to those people who have qualified to carry a concealed weapon (that includes training and an intensive background check) are already the type of people who are capable of handling themselves in any situation.
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That is irrational. I guarantee you none of my many guns pose even the slightest hint of danger to you. You can put it on your counter and it will never attack you, never jump on using its own free will and shoot anyone, nor will it cause you to do the same.
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I understand a lot of criminals use guns. They are effective as a weapon. For instance, my mother, who just completed chemotherapy and weighs 95 pounds holding two 50 pound sack of potatoes is perfectly capable of defending herself against a 300 pound linebacker.
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For every school shooting you hear, there are hundreds of thousands of people (like myself) who defend their own lives with a firearm, most of the time never firing a shot (like me).
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Here, educate yourself a little. This website chronicles self defenses with firearms. There are HUNDREDS each week – http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html
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The firearm is used more in defense than in crime, but it simply doesn’t make the front page news.
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If you do not wish to protect yourself, that’s your prerogative. But to deny others who wish to is the exact same as those people who think you shouldn’t give out condoms because THEY don’t like them.
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I would be more than happy to answer any questions you might have or debate any specific points. Be aware, I’ll bring encyclopedias of links to back up my assertions.
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Thank you for your time.
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Robb -
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Thanks for sharing your opinion on the matter. I think allowing guns in schools is a bad idea. I didn’t say erase them from the world. This Arizona woman wants 18-23 year olds to have guns in their back packs with only a gun safety course. Most 18-23 year olds are not trained with a weapon. I personally would not feel safe in a classroom of 18 year olds all with guns.
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If they had extensive training, that would be a different story. But a simple safety course? How am I to know that someone isn’t going to get pissed about a comment I make and pull it out? Why would anybody think that school are proper places for guns? With all the violence in schools already, the last thing we should do is encourage it by arming everyone.
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I’m not telling the world to ban guns, but I don’t think it should be as easy as giving them to everyone.
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Free&Flawed, I’d like to take apart your comment a little, please bear with me as I’m trying to make a point and not be a prick.
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“wants 18-23 year olds to have guns in their back packs”
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“classroom of 18 year olds all with guns.”
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“the last thing we should do is encourage it by arming everyone.”
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“but I don\’92t think it should be as easy as giving them to everyone.”
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You are saying “everyone”. This is not the case. In Shall Issue states (43 of them!), while a large number of people do get their CCW’s (Carrying Concealed Weapon), it’s a very, very small percentage. And, it’s a verifiable fact that CCW holders are immensely more law abiding citizens than other population groupings.
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You are worried about crimes of passion, the most RARE violent crime out there. You stand a greater chance of a VT incident than someone getting ticked at what you say and shooting you. In fact, I was in an auto accident yesterday. The entire time, I was armed and never even considered pulling my pistol. Just having it doesn’t *cause* you to do things. Pulling a gun on someone out of anger is a felony, killing someone can lead to a death sentence. You think an otherwise normal person is simply going to be overcome with rage in a classroom setting and kill you, knowing it’s the end of their life as they know it?
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Another major issue is this fallacy that certain “areas” have some sort of magical barrier that makes self defense unnecessary (i.e. Gun Free Zones). Either guns belong nowhere or anywhere, you can’t say that a particular piece of land somehow negates the need. Gun Free Zones didn’t protect the students at VT or NIU. The Colorado church shooting wasn’t gun free, and look what happened there – an armed person stopped a massacre from happening. And many people think Churches are like colleges and have no room for guns.
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How about this story? A STUDENT took out a terrorist with his gun.
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In conclusion, it is a fallacy to say that the gun itself causes violence. Simply having one, even on campus, isn’t going to cause anyone to murder because you sat in their favorite seat or ruined the bell curve for them. To truly have freedom, you must also accept the responsibility that comes with it. Freedom is a dangerous thing. Scary. Unsafe. And to limit other’s freedoms in an attempt to relieve yourself of the burden of personal responsibility is… flawed.
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Robb -
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“The entire time, I was armed and never even considered pulling my pistol.”
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Just because YOU didn’t doesn’t mean others wouldn’t. I think you’re forgetting that not every student is trained to use a weapon. Why give guns to people who don’t know how to use them?
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If they’re only requiring a gun safety course, how is that supposed to make me feel better? A safety course doesn’t mean they’re law-abiding citizens.
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What about accidents? What if someone forgets to put a safety on. What if some drunk ass starts messing around with it and shoots his friend or even himself? I think there are too many variables in the school environment. I, for one, wouldn’t feel safe at a school full of guns.
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That is why I don’t think I’d attend such a school. It’s great if you want to send your kids there, but it’s not for me.
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Just consider if you were a criminal, hell bent on committing a crime in which you use a gun. Say, for instance, robbing a store. There are two stores, one has a sign out front saying that it is a gun-free zone and no one is allowed to carry one inside. The other has a sign welcoming those who carry guns upon their persons. So, which store do you choose to rob? The one where there might be someone that could shoot back at you? Or the one where you know that no one will shoot back?
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THAT is the point.
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To quote something from your statement “…. Wow, one whole course about gun safety? Is that what it takes to stop people from shooting up schools and department stores? Why didn\’92t we think of this years ago? Oh right, we did. It doesn\’92t work.”
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People as young as 16 years old are given a dangerous weapon and allowed to use it with only 1 course on safety. Sometimes it’s misused, most of the time it is not; should we ban this dangerous weapon?
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What is this dangerous weapon? A motor vehicle, of course. Millions of people drive millions of miles each day. Are there accidents, deliberate misuses of this weapon, yes. Should we ban anyone under 21 from using it because some of them are unstable?
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I find it so interesting that men are for this and women are against it.
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I agree with Bob, that a vehicle is a dangerous weapon. That’s a very good point.
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My point of this post is simply saying that I do NOT feel comfortable with guns at school. That’s all. I don’t see why so many people are trying to talk me out of that. If I’m not comfortable, I’m not. If you want to arm your children, go right ahead.
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Another factor you appear to ignore, F&F, is history. Facts. Statistics. Empirical evidence.
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The emphasis by those of us like Robb and me, who are fervent supporters of all of the Bill of Rights, is not to increase the numbers of people who carry firearms. It’s not to put guns in the hands of people who don’t want them, or are too young to handle them responsibly.
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What we want is to allow people who are already allowed by their state government to carry a concealed firearm to not have to disarm upon entering the campus of a state-operated college or university. That’s it. These are not people who get involved in violent arguments, drunken brawls or any of the things you fear so much. That’s proven. They behave responsibly today. Nothing would change, other than being allowed to continue to be armed on campus rather than leaving their self-defense behind.
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If your fears were well-founded, there would be incidents of adults (21 or older) who possess permits or licenses to carry a concealed weapon who are involved in these types of shootings somewhere other than on a college campus. Where is this happening? Can you name one?
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What you are so afraid of wouldn’t happen. On the other hand, something like this might happen, and that would be a good thing.
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I should specify, the following lines from the linked article are what I was referring to as “a good thing.”
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In obstinately ignoring Robb’s point you keep repeating the same canard:
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Why give guns to people who don\’92t know how to use them?
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Which of the proposals to eliminate the “gun free zones” of public universities involves such a thing?
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Your argument is a strawman. It is an emotional argument not based on the reality of what is being proposed.
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The proposal to eliminate gun free zones would not “give guns” to anyone. It would only allow those who are ALREADY armed, have ALREADY demonstrated proficiency, have ALREADY passed the requisite background checks and proven themselves to be stable and law abiding members of society and are ALREADY permitted to carry those arms anywhere else in public, to also do so on public university campuses…just like they can while walking down the sidewalk just outside that campus.
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I, for one, wouldn\’92t feel safe at a school full of guns.[emphasis added]
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And that is the problem with your entire argument. it is not based upon facts, logic or reason, but upon how you “feel.”
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Emotion is a powerful motivator, but is rarely the best basis for public policy.
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In every instance dating back to the very first “shall issue” concealed weapons permits back in the early 80’s, every attempt to strengthen the rights of law abiding citizens to provide for their own self-defense has resulted in hysterical predictions of “blood in the streets”, shootouts over traffic accidents and petty arguments turning into gunfights.
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Where has this occurred? At what point have those predictions ever proven prescient?
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Answer: Nowhere and at no time.
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Currently the state of Utah allows adults (including students) with concealed handgun permits to carry their defensive firearms on campus. In several states (such as my own state of Virginia) it is up to the university to set policy and some administrations do not prevent lawful defensive firearms carry.
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Where and when have your predictions of accidents, drunken brawls turning into the OK corral or shootings over minor disputes been borne out?
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Answer: They haven’t.
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Concealed Weapon Permit holders are demonstrably and consistently the single most law abiding cross section of American society bar none…even moreso than Law Enforcement Officers.
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So…eliminate all of the emotional stramen from your arguments…all the references to “giving” people guns or “arming everyone” or “untrained people”; all of the “what if” arguments that have never happened in reality; all of the predictions based upon nothing more than your own prejudices.
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After eliminating all of those unsupportable and unjustified planks, restate your platform. Not much left to talk about is there?
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The main problem with the anti-gun argument is that criminals don’t obey the law. People who rob, rape, assault, and murder don’t obey the law. Laws only restrain people who are willing to obey them. And having special places, like campuses, where guns are forbidden, doesn’t do much to keep criminals crazies away. Or keep them unarmed.
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All the multiple-murder incidents I can think of have taken place in so-called gun-free zones. I can’t think of any that have occurred at gun ranges. Can you? But people have all kinds of guns at gun ranges. I think there’s a pattern here. Don’t you?
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F&F,
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We aren’t necessarily trying to talk you out of being uncomfortable around guns, but trying to show how that discomfit that you and others feel affect the laws. Law abiding gun owners are like the safe drivers; the ones that don’t run red lights, sped recklessly, etc.
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I’m not comfortable being disarmed in public, but there are many places you can’t carry guns. We are not asking everyone be forced to carry a firearm to make us comfortable. Just that we are allowed (to exercise something we shouldn’t need permission) a right to be comfortable.
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If you are uncomfortable around firearms, are you going to call a cop when you get robbed? Remember he or she will be carrying a firearm. Who do you want to have the only guns on campus, criminals or the law abiding?
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“I find it so interesting that men are for this and women are against it.”
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Maybe with your readership, but I must say that I see more women at the gun clubs and in firearms safty classes every day.
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http://www.womenandguns.com/archive/old0905issue/feature1005.html
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http://www.2asisters.org/
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I did a little digging in Google News, but I know there have been several articles recently written by the growing number of women entering the shooting sports.
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Robb mentioned his mother keeps a firearm for protection (and the fact that she’s been having serious health problems its good that she is relying on more than her own physical strenth and police that may be minutes away when seconds count) My wife and I will both be going for our carry permits this spring.
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What frightens me is that there is a stigma that women shouldn’t handle guns. This is nothing but a diservice to feminism, as it leaves women dependant on only their physical strenths when attacked, and the facts are that most women are larger and stronger than most women.
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Even as a man, I’ve spent most of my life in a classroom, but I know many others who have spent their whole lives on the streets. While I choose to settel disputes with words and reason, these people have learned brute force as a means to aquire submission. Why would I think, even as a man in good physical shape that I could stand a chance against somebody like that if they refused to reason with me?
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In this case a firearm is a last resort used ONLY to prevent the loss of life and limb.
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If you are concerned about the above mentioned persons having guns. Well it is unlawful for any convicted felon to posess any firearm for the rest of their lives. Many violent people still aquire guns on the black market, but measures of gun control do little to slow the black market. DC and Chicago’s ban on handguns is a very good example of the futility of attempting to ban the tool rather than doing more to punish the dangerous behavior that misuses the tool (MADD seeks to raise penalties and awareness of drunk draving and underage drinking, not the ban of alcohol or autos, and as a rule their acts have been sucessful). If you want a little distance you can also look to the UK which of course is an island that has banned all but a few firearms (including ALL handguns and ALL semi-automatic firearms)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3195908.stm
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As stated above, I’m not against legal action, I just see it futile to punish innocent people for the tools that they own because a small minority misuse said tools. And frankly most crimes involving firearms involve people who are already breaking a number of laws….some of which are over 50 years old
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act
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If these people are already breaking countless firearms laws (and of course laws like assault or property laws, murder) what would another law do to prevent this? Nothing, but it does make it harder for my wife, and Robb’s Mother, and any other person who is licenced to defend themselves to do just that.
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as for your comment: “My point of this post is simply saying that I do NOT feel comfortable with guns at school. That\’92s all.”
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How do you feel about guns at your grocery store? The highway? The Movie Theatre? The Mall? A Restaurant?
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Unless any of the above have also been branded “Gun Free Zones” (Which is a definite farce when somebody gets shot in them) these areas it is perfectly legal for people to carry there, and they likely do, and much like the person who Robb had his accident with, you are completely unaware of it. (its called concealed for a reason)
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I ask this only because the proposed laws for campus carry would simply allow the same right and privilege on campus as they do in the rest of the state. And before you state the rebuttal that colleges are havens for drinking and drugs, it is just as illegal to handle a firearm while intoxicated as it is to operated a vehicle. Again this issue is best handled by awareness and punishment for those who violate the law, rather than banning of the tool (Do you think all autos should be banned from campus, including faculty? This is the EXACT proposition being made towards guns on campus…)
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One final analogy before I sign off. Teen pregnancy is a problem in this nation, but a trend that is on the decline. I see little use (and actually danger, as my first sexual experience was unprotected and I was of an abstinence mindset as a youth) in abstinence training. Abstinence is a very good option, but in the end awareness, and proper safety techniques are the best way to lower rates of unwanted pregnancies and STDs. We teach every young child “Good Touch Bad Touch” and to stay clear of strangers, and all young adults how to use a condom, and the birth control pills will help with pregnancy, but not with STDs et al. Yet somehow a simple safety lesson such as Eddie Eagle’s “STOP! Don’t Touch. Leave the Area. Tell an Adult.” is constantly rejected by schools to teach young children to respect and avoid un-supervised contact with firearms. And of course young adults are not taught the 4 rules of safe gun handling
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http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html
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and how to safely store and secure firearms that are not in use.
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Most schools don’t propose abstinence education for sex but they take that EXACT approach to firearms, and get upset when the predictable results occur.
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Best wishes, and Be safe!
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-Weer’d Beard
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I wrote a little essay a while back, the whole thing is here.
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The part I think you should pay attention to is this:
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As I accept this responsibility, I must understand that I will be expected to maintain a higher standard of behavior than my fellow citizen, and, it could be argued, a higher standard than even the Police, as should I make a mistake with my firearm, I will be required to defend myself against criminal charges, and I will not have the resources and influence of the Police Union to support me.
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As I accept the responsibility, I must understand that I can not be allowed to make a mistake with my firearm, as one mistake will result, at the very least, in the suspension of my responsibility, and should I be convicted, the permanent revocation of that responsibility, and possible loss of my freedom.
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Freeandflawed,
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First, thank you for keeping your comments open – many who argue for gun control are not interested in discussion, and close their comments when they receive opposing viewpoints – it speaks well of you that you have not done so.
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I note that you are based in Chicago, so this conversation is somewhat acedemic since there is no provision in Illinois law for the carrying of firearms concealed or not. Also, it is my understanding that the City of Chicago actually prohibits the ownership of handguns, or at least makes it so difficult to get one as to effectively prohibit them.
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The reason I bring this up is that you seem to be saying that people are trying to argue you out of your discomfort at the idea private citizens being armed.
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I do not think this is the case – what I think Robb and the others are trying to do is get you to re-evaluate what it is you are really being comfortable with.
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Look at it this way: if you go into the City of Chicago, you are surrounded by people, and a percentage of them have guns on them. Some of those armed people are very young and unstable, and all of them are criminals, and since armed, can reasonably be considered violent criminals at that. All of the law-abiding people are unarmed. By default, this is the situation you are comfortable with.
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You may say, “Well, if the regular folk could carry guns too, all those guns would just increase the likelihood of violence.” I don’t believe that to be the case, but you can easily research it for yourself if so inclined. If you keep an open mind on the subject, I think you will end up agreeing with myself and Robb et. al., but you must look for yourself. I guess a more visceral way of putting it would be: I do not think anyone involved in a public mass-murder says to themself, “Gee, I’m glad the only person here with a gun is the crazy guy.”
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Anyway, thanks again for allowing us to use your forum.
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Mike
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More about women and guns
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http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/nancy_gets_her_gun/Content?oid=423951
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F&F, I would like to point out something that may insult you, but I do not mean it to, for I believe it is unintentional on your part.
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Here it is; “My point of this post is simply saying that I do NOT feel comfortable with guns at school. That\’92s all. I don\’92t see why so many people are trying to talk me out of that. If I\’92m not comfortable, I\’92m not. If you want to arm your children, go right ahead.”
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Do you not recognize the arrogance in your statement above when coupled with your support of gun free (criminal kill boxes) zones?
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You would deny everyone else their right to provide for defense of their own lives and perhaps the lives of other innocents because you FEEL uncomfortable. Of course, we are trying to talk you out of that feeling! It sits on false premises and inaccurate conclusions. That is provable with just a little research. And no, I don’t mean the press releases of any of the lobbying groups for or against. I mean real compilations of real facts, not hyperbolic spin.
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While I respect your right to hold any emotion you wish, even ones based on false premises, I cannot respect your call to harm the freedom and rights of everyone else because you are uncomfortable with someone exercising his rights. It is an intellectually deficient response to an overly emotional reaction that doesn’t have a basis in reality.
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I am scared to death of spiders, no really, I am. But, at least, I realize it is an unreasonable emotional response and I would not advocate for denial of houses to my neighbors because they may have spiders in them. Nor do I avoid the homes of friends and I certainly don’t advocate for the police to make sure they don’t have spiders because I don’t FEEL comfortable with them.
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You are much in the same position with concealed carry on campus by students who are qualified, except you want to make them subservient to your emotion.
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I hold no animosity for you, because as someone above stated you have exhibited much more strength of character than we usually find among those who advocate against civil and human rights.
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So, if what I have said has insulted you, please forgive me, I just had an idea you may not have looked at your stance from this angle.
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Straightarrow -
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By me saying I’m uncomfortable, I don’t see how I’m denying anybody’s right to carry a weapon. Just because I don’t like it doesn’t mean I’m actively against it.
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I don’t approve of war but it happens. I don’t like the death penalty but it is a necessary evil. I’m not trying to stop anyone from pursuing their rights, I just don’t happen to agree with it. What’s the harm in that?
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So you are saying you would support CCW on campus, because you don’t want to deny us our rights?
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MadRocketScientist –
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I probably wouldn’t do much about it to be honest. I wouldn’t actively support it. You won’t find me handing out brochures promoting it or protesting it. I can’t deny you of your rights, I have no authority to do so. People who want to carry guns will, no matter what laws are set in place, no matter how I feel. I would be more suspicious of how many people around me are carrying them and might become a little paranoid.
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But in the grand scheme of things, my discomfort means very little.
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F&F,
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Thanks for keeping an open mind on this, but your discomfort and opinion means a very much. Opinion polls, letters to editors, calls to representatives or even speaking up on campus shows what people care about and what they don’t.
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I notice that you (like myself) wear glasses, how would you feel if during a debate on campus someone spoke up saying they are uncomfortable around people wearing glasses? Wouldn’t that comment help those people who want to ban glasses from campus?
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Would you try to convince them we are harmless? Individually a single voice may not seem like much, but a chorus is simply many single voices on the same page.
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Do you distrust all people who carry firearms or just those who aren’t in uniform, e.g. police?
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Most of the people who carry have as much or more training the police departments or armed security guards. I don’t even have my concealed carry license yet, but I spend at least 2 hours each month at the range practicing, more time studying the laws, etc.
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Bob -
But I see your point. If people are uncomfortable with glasses or don’t like them, I’m not going to talk them out of it. If they don’t want to like me because of glasses, that’s their problem. While I see your point, I think the glasses thing is a bad example. Because someone not liking glasses is pretty ridiculous.
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With all due respect, glasses don’t kill people
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As for guns, there’s always going to people who are against them. There will always be people trying to talk others into accepting them. While I respect each and every one of you who have voiced your opinion, it doesn’t make me feel any better about them.
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The best way to feel less anxious about a thing is to be exposed to such a thing in a safe environment. There are lots of people in the Chicago area who would be happy to take you to the range and teach you what every other firearm owner knows, that firearms are perfectly safe in competent hands, and that most of the states that allow CCW do not casually allow a person to carry without demonstrating that competence.
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F&F,
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The glasses analogy isn’t as outrageous as you might think. Think of the people with wrong ideas about people who wear glasses, some of them might think we are bad drivers. They might be very uncomfortable about people with glasses driving on campus…..so they move to create a ban to stop us from driving on campus.
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After all, we don’t really NEED to drive; there are cabs, buses or we could just walk. Do those of us who wear glasses really have a right to be driving on campus?
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We know that glasses (although very difficult could be used to kill) are just tools to help us. How can we convince people we are safe; that they shouldn’t be uncomfortable?
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Frankly, I don’t care if people accept me wearing glasses or not until they try to infringe on my rights.
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That is what we are asking for with concealed carry, just to exercise our rights.
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F&F,
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I’ll be on the South Side tomorrow early afternoon. If you would like, I’ll take you to a range. My treat.
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erisian_logic at hotmail.com
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I’m a vet, qualified expert on all small arms I’ve been issued and served 3 tours in a combat zone. Would you feel safe if I had a concealed firearm on campus?
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It’s all about freedom, if someone meets the requirements, why should they have to be defenseless just because they want to better themselves?
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Free&Flawed –
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You said: “I find it so interesting that men are for this and women are against it.”
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Let me be the first woman in your comments to prove this false. I enjoy shooting and will be getting my concealed carry license at the end of this month. There are many women who, like me, enjoy the idea of being able to defend ourselves. I have lots of links to many other “chicks with guns” on my blog, if you’d like to take a look…
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But I understand your fear. I really do. The first time I ever shot a gun, I cried afterwards because it was so frightening for me. But I came to understand that there are rules for safe handling and that guns are just things. Inanimate objects. If a person is not normally prone to violent behavior, putting a gun in their hands is not going to make them more likely to commit crimes. For example, I’ve had arguments in my kitchen but I never pulled a knife on anyone, even though I had one within easy reach.
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Perhaps you’d feel more comfortable around guns if you went to a range and tried shooting, even if it’s just one time?
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I hope this and the other comments help you to understand how people on “the other side” of the gun debate think and feel. Good luck!
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Breda
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F&F,
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I understand that you are uncomfortable with a dangerous item such as a gun. Ignorance leads one to feel timid in picking up a gun because with careless handling an unintentional discharge can happen. The problem that in many areas of the country there is no training on handling of firearms when people are young. Do you recall how you felt the first time you were behind the wheel when you first started driving? It was real scary to be in control of such a powerful tool, which with incorrect pressure on the gas could immediate result in an accident. But with training and patience of the person who taught you, you got more comfortable and became a competent driver. Think of what the feeling was of the person who sat next to you when you first got behind the wheel. They were probably terrified, but restrained them self because it was necessary for you to learn how to handle a 3000 lb automobile.
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I brought this analogy up because the fear and timidity is similar when first you learn to handle a gun. You mentioned how the females have similar opinions to you than the males. That is from training. More males have been trained to handle firearms and are more confident in their ability to handle them responsibly. Like training teenagers to drive, in order for students to handle a firearm they should be trained. But though that was more common to have that training in high schools more than 30 years ago, it is almost non-existent today.
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You fear correctly, that irresponsible young people would misuse a gun. Goofing around, etc. However the way to solve the problem of being irresponsible is training. We educate teenagers on being responsible sexually, i.e.: using condoms and birth control to limit sexual diseases and unwanted pregnancies. The same education and training should be offered to young people so they understand the responsible use of a firearm, same as the use of a car.
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The emotional response of young people such as you is that you fear or are uncomfortable with guns. That can be resolved with training. But also many anti-gun people project their own feeling that they are not capable of controlling their emotions and rage if they have a gun available. Many people are not emotional mature or able to deal rationally with emotional conflict and tend to escalate that conflict. Self-control is necessary and without that, those people are less trustworthy of using a dangerous tool. However that problem of control is also addressed with training. The same age group you mentioned of 18-23 are trusted with more more dangerous tools of destruction in the military. The difference is that they are trained.
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So in order to be more comfortable, take up third power offer of being taken to the range. People who enjoy shooting try very hard to make it an enjoyable experience. They usually have you handle a small caliber that is comfortable to your hand and that you can enjoy the thrill of hitting the target. Most women are actually pretty good and accurate to the surprise of many males. Shooting can be fun. The fun of shooting is the skill, not the idea to use that skill to hurt someone. You don\’92t have to feel that you must carry a gun, which is an inconvenience that most people do not want to handle. Those that wish to carry though and have had the CCW training and shoot regularly should be able to carry if they want to.
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I am a lot older than you and have had the experience of children and training them to be competent and capable adults. I have been involved in Boy Scouts for over a decade and have had the privilege of helping them learn how to handle a variety of risks and skills. That also included rifle and shotgun experience to get them qualified to get their merit badges. The whole idea of school and college is that young people can be trained and schooled to handle themselves to be capable and competent adults. I also include that girls and women need to be trained how to avoid risky situations and how to get out of them if needed. All women should know some self-defense. That does not mean you need to carry a gun if you do not want. But you do need to learn to be a competent and capable young woman, to know how to defend and escape a dangerous situation.
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I am not trying to say you are wrong, but to understand where your fear is coming from and how to learn skills so you do need to fear a tool or other younger people to use that tool responsibly. I have seen many idiotic and unwise behavior from people growing up, but I still trust them if schooled correctly to be competent adults that can also handle dangerous tools such as firearms. From my perspective that is a greater amount of trust to offer since I have brought up children to be adults and had personally experience of the foolishness of the young.
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My children though have been trained to handle firearms correctly and if necessarily I would trust my life to them defending me if God Forbid that situation occurs.
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Others have addressed the issue that unstable or criminal types of people exist and can endanger us. And yes many of those people can be competent with a firearm to our detriment. But the only way to defend against a bad person with a gun is with a good person with a gun. There are so many more good people in this country than bad. I will trust in the good people to defend themselves and perhaps me if they are allowed to carry a defensive weapon.
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F&F,
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I would agree with others that it is commendable that you have not only left yourself open to opposing opinions, but you also reply respectfully. Thank you, for that.
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There are volumes of statistics regarding armed citizens. All of them point to what has already been stated here.
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If you were truely concerned for your well being when a fellow student disagrees with you, that person not having a gun would not make you safer. What would stop them from picking up a chair and beating you with it?
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There are several websites that I think would be helpful to you.
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This one is from a woman’s perspective.
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http://www.corneredcat.com/
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This one has a lot of posters available with men and women, and why they “feel” the need to be armed.
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http://www.a-human-right.com/
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This is where I have received excellent training. They really shine when it comes to people that have never even fired a gun, especially women. You could ask my wife. When I sheepishly informed them that I forgot to explain to my wife how the gun works, they said, “Great!”. By the way, they teach in Illinois.
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http://www.midwesttraininggroup.net/
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I would also like to offer myself, as one who lives in the suburbs of Chicago, as willing to take you to the range. My treat. We would start with Firearm Safety, before touching a firearm.
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In spite of what you read in newspapers, guns do not, “go off”. They do not discharge. They are not designed to kill people, and there is no such thing as “Cop Killer” ammunition.
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For several years, Chicago was murder capital of america. That, with having very strict gun laws in place. In fact, those places having the most strict gun restrictions, have the most violent crime.
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Hey Jenn, I saw this report and thought of you:
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http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/03/09/frey.pa.women.guns.wtae
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CNN usally doesn’t give gun owners a fair shake in their reports. I’m impressed they covered this.
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Weer’d Beard -
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Haha, thanks
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F&F,
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Are you going to take up Steven invitation to learn about what you write about? Most women really like shooting when the learn it.
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Lisa -
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At this time, I have no desire to go to a range and fire a gun. Not because I’m against it, I just have no interest in doing so.
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F&F,
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That is fine. I sincerely hope that no bad events happen in your life that changes your mind.
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However if you are going to opine statements,” I think more restrictions need to be placed on guns.\’94 you should learn about what you are talking about.
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Hobbyists tend to object when people advocate a restriction on their hobby when those people are not knowledgeable about their hobby. That is why several people have posted invitations to you so you can experience the hobby yourself.
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I personally have been an active horsewoman for decades. I have competed at cross-country, hunt races, and fox hunting and just pleasure trail riding. Throughout those decades we have had to defend our sport against those who feel it is cruel to horses and cruel to hunt foxes. It is extremely aggravating to encounter the hubris of advocates who try to restrict a sport that you love, when those advocates are ignorant about the sport.
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People often have opinions about items that they are ignorant. However if they are going to write about their opinion, then they should educate themselves about the subject. Your opinion can be important, that is why we have tried to present a different viewpoint and allow you the ability to learn about the subject you wrote about.
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It has been nice talking to you.
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Lisa -
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I am not talking about guns as a sport. I’m talking about guns as a weapon. If you want to go hunting or to a shooting range, by all means do. My opinion is not stopping you. But when guns are placed in incapable hands, then I worry. Why is it so easy for kids to get a hold of guns and shoot up a school? That’s my concern.
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I don’t think that I need to shoot a gun to understand anything. I have no desire to ever hold a gun in my hands. That’s just me. It’s fantastic that women, men and even children are being properly trained.
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I’ve left comments open because I don’t want to rob anyone of their opinion, but I don’t think I am ignorant because I haven’t shot a gun.
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